Madiba played a big role. During those talks on the ship he found out which African armies had committed themselves to move in to help Kabila, and then they would have fought the other SADC armies which would have had gone in, Angola, Zimbabwe. Kabila had 11 African heads of state who had committed to sending troops to defend him against the others. Mobutu gave Madiba the names and Madiba spent practically the whole night – I wasn’t party to it, but I was told I think by Jakes – calling each of them and telling them how wrong that would be. That was the most decisive thing he did.