389 - Geraldine Fraser Moleketi, interview by Tony Trew, 26 July 2016.

But also in amalgamating the public services, and this is a different point, you brought together completely different cultures. The way in which service delivery and service provision was done was quite different, and that is where Paseka Ncholo played a role together with Zola Skweyiya, where they introduced the whole concept of Batho Pele, People First. Although it started there, it was highlighted when I was in public service. We tried to give it much more traction as well as developing sectoral service delivery charters in the sectors to try to change the way people worked. To a degree, that was one thing we never fully got right because we probably didn’t always fully appreciate the fact that changing culture is much more complex than changing policy or the regulatory and legal environment. Public servants didn’t necessarily change at the pace and speed that was required.