We had very deep discussions. One discussion over breakfast one day was about the wisdom – or not wisdom - of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I said it is just going to divide us, sir, and make us relive the horrors of both sides, the side of the police or the security police doing bad thigs, and also the necklace murders. I said, ‘Why do you want to relive that, we have reached a new situation.’ I really very nearly convinced him and then he saw De Klerk and I was told De Klerk said you mustn’t believe me and then they decided they will run with the commission. I really believe that thing didn’t really serve any purpose. In any case, after Mandela had gone what was left over of the reconciliation was due to come from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.