302 - Max Sisulu, interview by Tony Trew, Johannesburg, 15 April 2015.

And at the end of the day Madiba could also be rough and say, ‘This is the ANC policy position,’ and so draw the line. And that was understood. But he would do that after discussion. He would never stand up and just impose himself. It was only when there were issues that were becoming problematic that he had to step in as president of the ANC and say, ‘This is the ANC line.’ He was also able to find time to listen to people.

But also he had some of his comrades. Remember in the first Parliament there were a lot of old people who were on Robben Island, senior in Parliament, not only Kathy, senior ANC people in Parliament, and therefore there was this respect. He would also call them aside, to discuss with the senior people, caucus them. He was good at it. When they come to talk to ordinary Members of Parliament, the young people, it was a caucused position.